The NFL and Rush Limbaugh Imperfect Together: Michael David
Let me be clear. I am for anyone with the money buying whatever they want but there are some obvious conundrums in the Limbaugh deal for both the NFL and Rush himself. First why would Rush join a league run like a socialist society? Shouldn’t each team compete in a free market place? Isn’t forcibly keeping the the contracted salaries down against his free market ideals? No one limits what Rush makes off of his show, nor should they. What I don’t get is how this reconciles with his political ideals. The NFL is anti free market, from the time it squashed, with the help of a ridiculous court decision, the USFL, to the way it shares revenue and caps salaries is anything but free. Also how does Rush feel about all of the public tax dollars that have been WASTED on building and helping to build business facilities (stadium) for a private company? There is nothing in the NFL business model that speaks to conservative values but all that said I assume he sees it as a money making opportunity and doesn’t mind leaving his values behind to make a buck.
As for the NFL and Roger Goodell, who has been on a personal conduct rampage, how will they handle every racist, sexist, or inflammatory remark Limbaugh makes? If a player had said “Look, let me put it to you this way: the NFL all too often looks like a game between the Bloods and the Crips without any weapons. There, I said it.” how much and how quickly would Roger have fined them? There are way too many of these comments to go through but I think that illustrates the dilemma for the NFL. No good can come of this for the league, but for Rush it is a win win. First he doesn’t care what people think, secondly if he is denied he will use it to pump up his victim-hood, and finally if he is accepted it will garner him an incredible amount of publicity. I can’t wait to see how this turns out and how the mostly black players in the NFL handle having a vocal racist as an owner instead of a closeted one.
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Frankly, if this is the level of discourse vented on Yublog, then it is a failed venture. Using the word “WASTED” in describing these public funded stadiums is simply an opinion which you state as fact with no back up data or proof to add to the conversation. Do the communities that enjoy these venues agree with you? I doubt it, but see if you can actually due some background checking.
Can you site the show date and time that Rush said: “Look, let me put it to you this way: the NFL all too often looks like a game between the Bloods and the Crips without any weapons.” Did you do any background on that and put in the correct context. If you did you failed to state such in your piece. I don’t see that as a racist statement at all. Why don’t you explain that. Admit it, your just repeating the pablum of what you heard other people say right??
Frankly, I think this piece is just plain junk, stupidity and failed logic. But what can you expect in the blogoshpere.
…says the man reading from the “blogosphere.” YuBlog.org is a forum for people to write what they feel. It’s not like the folks submitting articles to this site are being fact-verified by media giants, proofread to perfection, or being paid to submit said articles.
This site is about bringing people together to have discussions. It’s not for folks like you to come on and preach about proper reporting technique. You know what? I don’t need to have “verified” proof that you are a tool. I’m just going to report here that you are. If you want hardcore verifiable news, go to the Associated Press or your local news outlet. Let the article submitters and readers enjoy what they want.
Ten bucks says this guy comes back to the post to see what people thing about his comments on the “blogosphere.”
GFY
I felt the need to look this up though just to back up the poster:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2009/10/rush-limbaugh-buy-bid-rams-nfl-jim-irsay-roger-goodell.html
Read on Tommy.
Well it’s a rare thing when I’m in agreement with Boston about something (Heroes anyone? LOL!) but mark this on the calendar. A blog in general is a person’s opinions/thoughts/feelings on a subject. YuBlog.org is just what Boston said…a site for folks to have intelligent discussions about pretty much any topic that some one wants to write about.
As for the topic of this blog, here’s another article that highlights some of Limbaugh’s comments in the past…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091013/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_nfl_limbaugh_6
I love you Jeff, in a completely heterosexual, heroes still sucks kinda way.
One more link…directly from the Rush Limbaugh site:
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/estack_12_13_06/the_classless_nfl_culture_.guest.html
Do a text search for Crips and you can find the quote.
Oh and Boston…Love you too bro! And you shouldn’t give up on Heroes…episode last night was pretty good!
Thanks Boston…
Anyway let me support the wasted money comment with the example of the four sports facilities built in PA in 2004 (Pirates, Steelers, Eagles, Phillies) There was more than $150,000,000 of public money put into EACH project which of, of course, adds up to $600,000,000 much of which is yet to be paid off. Now while Philly is paying their portion of that debt they are closing public pools, libraries, and other after school programs as well as in school programs. Have the Eagles or Phillies offered to payback any of the public money to a city that is in dire straights? No they have not. So we have Lincoln Financilal Field which is used 10 - 15 times a year. Since moving into the stadium The Eagles have averaged 550,000 fans a year, which is only slightly higher than the Vet and is due to more capacity. So of that 550,000 more than 90% are season ticket holders, which means they are repeat customers. Of course you also have to figure in the approximately 30 - 35% of fans that come from NJ and payed for NONE of the public cost. So the city and state are paying debt service on a facility that 40,000 - 60,000 taxpayers experience a year. Now also realize that the majority of people in any region are not avid sports fans and gain no benefit from stadiums. As for benefits to the surrounding areas that is negligible at best. We could also talk about the skyrocketing value of teams that have benefited from partially or fully funded public stadiums, which only benefits the already wealthy owners. I could have used the Pirates whose attendance is putrid but that would have been too easy.
As for Rush, I work with people who listen to Rush all day and watch Fox News. I hear the show nearly everyday and know the context of his quotes. His comments are purposely racially charged and many times racist. More than likely he does this for effect and ratings but who knows. The NFL has become very strict on personal conduct and Rush would have a tough time with that especially if he had a drug relapse.
Also the reason public funding is almost never passed through ballot measures is because MOST people do NOT want to pay for pro sports facilities.
Personally, I don’t think Rush will be approved because he is too controversial for the NFL and I am surprised that a bidding group included him. I have read the crips and bloods comments and I don’t see them as blatently racist. Many of the other comments attributed to Rush are racist but there’s just one problem, he didn’t say them, according to him anyway. I live outside of Philly and the point you make about the stadium really doesn’t wash with the local community. The people here really love the new stadium. The problems in the City are due to the economy and poor leadership, not public funding for a stadium.
Dear chris,
An informed opinion is useful. Just repeating what other people are saying without doing your own due diligence is wasted space.
Say what you want about Rush, but did anybody bother to read the links they posted or did they just find the quote and say, “here it is”. I’m not sure if Tom had heard the actual conversation in which the quote about bloods and crips was pulled from, but he is completely correct in suggesting that it must be taken in context. The first link from the LA times was essentially worthless because it did nothing but note a mention the quotes talked about here with no context at all.
The best link, the one from Limbaugh’s own site, in my opinion, makes the quote way less offensive when read in the context of the conversation he was having. If you read it you will see that this all came about after a particular game between the Chargers and Patriots in which LaDainian Tomlinson suggested that the Patriots have no class because they were doing a dance at midfield of the Chargers stadium following a victory. So this whole discussion was about the lack of class in the NFL, exhibited by over the top sack dances, or excessive TD celebrations. He pointed out that these things are meant to taunt the other team and their fans, which results in players fighting or getting in each other’s faces resulting in silly unsportmanlike conduct penalties. He was equating this to the gang mentality of, “you can’t disrespect me or I’ll disrespect you”. He wasn’t saying all NFL players are gang members, he was saying that type of mentality gets in the way of the game. In fact if you read further a caller tries to insinuate that their are direct connections between NFL players and gangs, to which Limbaugh scoffs at the idea.
I guess my point is that context IS important and while yes this is a place for people to share opinions it wouldn’t hurt if people did a little digging in order to back up what they say.
I live 10 minutes from Philly and can say that there are many people who thought public funding was wrong. Also just because sports fans enjoy the stadia does not mean that it was nit a waste of public tax dollars. What has sprouted up around the Linc or Citizens? Also if sports facilities are such an incredible investment why do the leagues extort as much as they can from the public sector? Even in a sports town like Philly the majority of the people are not avid fans. To take the Phillies example yes they are drawing more but in my opinion that is because they finally made a commitment to win. They packed the Vet in 1993 and, if they had remained competitive, they would have continued to do so. Los Angeles is still Los Angeles even without the NFL. Pro sports do not add as much to a city as fanatics and owners want to believe. You cannot say that the money going to pay off the Stadium debt would not be better used elsewhere.
So Rush was talking about being classy and just happened upon a racially charged image, sounds good. Perhaps he should have compared athletes to other incredibly wealthy people like Donald Trump who do not like to be disrespected and act like children when it happens. I used that quote specifically because it deals with the NFL. If you don’t think Rush purposely stokes racially fires then we hear a different show. I guess playing Barrack The Magic Negro was an ode to Al Jolson or something. Also no one said the Rush meant that all players were gang members, that is not stated one time anywhere one this site. Why not address Rush buying into a league that accepts PUBLIC funding for its facilities costing taxpayers money?
Also speaking of context I never stated that the quote I used was racist. Read it again.
Michael,
I can only say that you seem to look for ways to prove what you already believe. That is not an honest view. It would be impossible for me to prove to you that the economics of the stadium are not what you believe because you are already convinced and it would take a long time for me to dig up the information to give you a course in economics. Not a very productive use of my time. I agree that “public funding” of a stadium is controversial in many cities and some have chosen to not to do it. But I lived near one, Cleveland, that refused to publicly fund a new stadium and the team moved to Baltimore. Once that happened, a new stadium was funded and built without there being a team in the city just to prove to the NFL that they were serious about getting a new team. It is a big financial blow to a city to lose a team like Cleveland did and they quickly moved to correct that situation. Of course economic times are tough now and city, state and federal tax revenues are down across the board. Nobody would decide to build a public stadium in the current environment. But these decisions were made years ago when things were better.
Your statement that the majority of Philly people are not avid fans defies belief. Philly is the most avid sports town in the country bar none. I am sure that there are plenty of casual fans too who don’t mind having nice stadiums. Are you sure we are talking about the same philly in PA??
You never stated that the quote was racist but that is the controversy about it. Just using the quote implies you are talking about race because that is the context of the discussion. By the way, it appears that Rush has been dropped by the team of people trying to buy the St. Louis Rams so this is now a moot point.
Actually the only thing I said about Rush’s statement was to question how Roger Goodell would handle one of his players making the same statement. So you are against deficit spending except on stadiums? The public sector should not pay for private enterprise, that is my feeling. A lot of people like to bowl but we are not running around funding bowling alleys ( except Reno ).
I was born in DelCo and have lived no more than a 15 minute ride from Philly my whole life. Yes there are a good amount of sports fans, but they are not a majority. Now by avid sports fan I mean some one who watches most games, of the team they follow, and attends the games when fiscally possible. 150 million is 150 million any way you slice it. Just because Cleveland and Baltimore overreacted and paid fir stadia does not mean it is a good or proper use of tax dollars.
Michael,
My comment was directed more towards the other comments. Although I still say that its irresponsible to just throw a quote out there without examining or mentioning its context. You don’t have to say he’s racist, but that is clearly the insinuation. Anyone, including me, who reads that quote will have a strong reaction about what was said. I just wish more people would dig a little bit and check out the discussion that it was pulled from.
Was it a poor choice of words? Sure. He could have used many other comparisons, but I still say that given the context, the comment comes off as a lot less offensive.
Also, do you realize that Barack the Magic Negro was written and performed by an opponent of Obama’s in the democratic primaries? Not by Rush Limbaugh or anyone associated with him? You can criticize him for giving it airplay, but it was created by a democrat.
Paul Skanklin, a CONSERVATIVE, wrote the song. Do not make things up or just repeat what you heard on Rush. Also who wrote the song does not matter because they were not trying to buy an NFL team. I am done arguing the semantics of context, I will respectfully agree to disagree. Thanks for the dialogue.
Also if you go to Paul Shanklin’s website he calls himself “Conservative Political Satarist”.
Michael
My apologies for not vetting my source.
You are correct in Paul Shanklin being a conservative satirist.
However he was not the originator of the infamous phrase. That would be LA Times Columnist David Ehrenstein.
By the way I never listen to Rush or agree with half the stuff he says. But I am willing to give everyone a fair shake and at least listen to what they are saying/have said before making a judgment.
In this particular occasion a quote was pulled from an unusually harmless discussion from his show. Sports writers have covered this topic numerous times. Old players think the new guys don’t respect the game. New players say its the “No Fun League”. Yadda Yadda.
The point is still that in its context the gang quote is not nearly as bad.
By the way, a semi popular sports columnist here in KC, Jason Whitlock, has made the same exact argument about a lot of professional athletes. But he’s black, so does that make it okay?
Once again I never said the quote was racist. I do think the image of gangs was used to stoke a racial reaction but that is what talk show hosts do. My only point about the quote is how would Roger Goodell handle one of his players, coaches or owners making that remark in or out of context. I know who Jason Whitlock is and at times he is a lot like Rush and pushes buttons. I personally don’t care if Rush is racist or not, he is just an entertainer. The only point is how would the NFL handle someone the appeals to a relatively narrow audience by using devicive material. Also I still don’t understand how the NFL business model in any way jibes with Rush’s supposed belief system. In context the LA Times editorial that used the “Magic Negro” line was speaking to how white America could feel better about racial history by voting for Obama.
Michael
I completely agree with you about comparing the business model in the NFL to his politics. Its the funniest thing about it. Although I would guess that if it was up to him, the NFL would not operate on thsi business model and that he would prefer a salary cap free league. Coincidently the league is a couple years away from that becoming a possibility if a new labor agreement is not reached. If you really wanted to pick him apart, you could mention that the type of behavior he is complaining about in football is the exact type of behavior he exhibits in the political world. His incendiary comments are the talk radio version of a sack dance or taunt.
I would disagree that he appeals to a relatively narrow audience. He probably has one of the larger radio audiences. There are a lot of people that like what he says. Its not like Obama won 80-20 in the popular vote. It was still relatively close, so there are plenty of people who share his sentiments about the current administration.
All this said, as a fan, and someone who thinks Limbaugh is a political blowhard, I couldn’t care less if he owned part of an NFL team.
By relatively narrow I was comparing his audience to the NFL audience is all. He is most likely the biggest radio personality out there. I would have actually enjoyed seeing him own part of a team because of the conflict it may caused within the NFL and his show. Thanks for the spirited back and forth, I enjoyed it. And thanks for taking the time to respond to the post.
Interesting discussion here. I think the racism argument is a fruitless one. We will never know if Rush is a racist, and we should not spend so much time arguing over it. It’s a waste of time to me to analyze a person’s every statement just to say “that’s it! he’s a racist!” There’s a much more effective way to deal with it: If an NFL player suspects Rush is a racist, then he shouldn’t play for the Rams (or any other team Rush may buy) If you are a fan of football who disagrees with racism, DON’T support the teams with racist ownership. In this way the free market still applies.
I agree the NFL has socialist policies, but doesn’t every company? Company-wide healthcare plans and benefits packages all have socialist behaviors. Remember a few years ago the controversy over people in the workplace trying to influence the diet of their co-workers to keep the insurance premiums low? Sure a lot of people disagreed with that. But at the end of the day, they didn’t HAVE to be on the company plan. If they did, then they didn’t HAVE to work for that particular company. All that matters is that we have a choice at the end of the day. The free market only works if we put our money where our conscience is.
I agree with Michael 100% on the issue of the government paying for stadiums. This is where we enter into true socialism. I live about 30 minutes from Nashville, and when the Titans (Texas Oilers) moved to Tennessee it was so silly it was almost comical. We basically rolled out the red carpet for an NFL team, all in the name of improving our “image.” Taxpayer dollars being used to build the stadium was supposedly justified by the increased revenue that an NFL team would bring. So now we get 8 days out of each year (home games) that yield a boost to our local economy. New businesses simply could not survive on that, even before the economic downturn. It was a bad deal.
Simply put, the government should stay out of the business of the private sector, and vice versa. If the NFL thinks a team would do good in a certain city, they should put up the money. Should Rush buy the Rams or any other team, this is the issue he should push to change, or like Michael said, he will not be able to reconcile his beliefs to his actions.
On the stadium stuff,
I have a book called Baseball by the Numbers, which examines several statistical and general myths in the game of baseball. One of the chapters discusses the stadium issue in baseball. I realize its not football stadiums, but I think it can used for comparison. They basically come to the conclusion that Michael and Steve have suggested. The economic boon that is often mentioned by the team and its representative is largely overexaggerated as are most of the things they say in attempts to sell it to the community. Now some people may be blinded by fandom or just not care where their tax money is spent, but new stadiums rarely benefit the community in a large way especially for existing teams.
“I loved what Hootie Johnson and the membership did,” Limbaugh told Golf Digest after Johnson, then the club’s chairman, refused to discuss the issue of women members with Burk. “Most clubs would have cowed in fear and called a meeting to reach a ‘common goal’ and all that. Not Augusta National.”
So I guess private institutions can keep out whomever they like.
I actually heard a very apt analogy on Jim Rome Friday. A caller made the point that the NFL and many players would have reacted the same way if Howard Stern were in an ownership group. He is just as controversial and in the same industry, an industry that thrives on controversy and publicity. Those are two things the NFL does not want in its owners. Also for all the people who think it his politics, a study was cited on the same show that showed 70% of NFL owners contributed to republican candidates or to the GOP.
Sorry Michael but on the stadium issue you are only looking at one side of the equation. Funding the stadium brings tremendous economic benefits to the community and tax revenues to the government. It is an investment in the community. In fact, governments do this sort of thing all the time. Its what brings prosperity and a certain lifestyle. You can see this investment in the arts, in park systems, in tax incentives to bring in jobs, and many other local and community organizations that make a place a good community. The sports stadiums don’t just hold sporting events, they also hold concerts, Big truck rally’s, religious gatherings, conventions, and many other events that are part of what makes a city a good place to live. And the city benefits from all of them. In my view it just makes good business sense to make these types of investments. Without its sports teams, Philly would be an East Coast backwater much like most of New Jersey. By the way, looks like LA is going to build a stadium to try and lure an NFL team back.
First off NJ is not a backwater and has the highest per capita income in the nation and apparently you haven’t been to much of PA which has the highest rural population in the country. Secondly prove your point, show me the study, that was not paid for by an interested party, that shows the impact of a stadium on a city. Just saying there is a tremendous benefit means nothing and just shows you are only looking at one side of the issue. Also there will be a total of 14 events at Lincoln Financial for all of 2009, wow I can see the eateries and bars popping up all over. Museums are 300+ days a year as are parks and other recreation activities that are either free or very affordable for the public. The only reason new stadia have been built over the last two decades is to build corporate suites and make more money for the ownership. Teams are not public entities. What would the Eagles be without Philly, they would be just like the Arizona Cardinals. What about the Pirates, did they need a new stadium, do the people of State College, Scranton, Allentown, Harrisburg, Hanover or any other central PA town benefit from these facilities they have helped pay for? Building roads to access a facility or extending mass transit is something that is feasible for governments to do but helping private investors gain more wealth is not the government’s job. If a stadium is so low risk why isn’t the NFL or MLB taking the billions in TV revenue and sinking it into facilities? Also what about a town like Detroit which built a new stadium for the Lions and now they get blacked out because the organization is a failure and the economy is a complete mess? Haven’t they paid enough for Ford Field already? Wouldn’t the 430 million that went to FF have been better spent building a battery research facility or a wind turbine plant or a million other businesses that would actually create jobs and maybe help the city recover. But I guess its nice to look at the outside of a billionaires playground from a cardboard box.
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